Floppyshop 2/Floppyshop - 2.zip/Floppyshop - 2.iso/diskmags/0022-3.564/dmg-3155/631.txt

Text File | 1992-05-11 | 27KB | 633 lines

Info-Atari16 Digest         Mon,  2 Dec 91       Volume 91 : Issue 631

Today's Topics:
                           Atari ST DEAD ?
           Does the AdSpeed STe *REALLY* double the speed?
                            Flavours of ST
                          GFA Basic (2 msgs)
                        Good raytracer needed
                          Mint versus Minix
                         Rufus 1.06 (2 msgs)
                            Supercharger?
                              TT prices
             Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product (3 msgs)
                            Writing a CPX
                                 ZAL

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 17:15:47 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu![e-mail] (Gregory Carter)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Smart) writes:
>
>I am supprised that the Atari st has not died for the more
>favourable Amiga 500 series. The atari is such a bad machine
>that I am supprised people buy it !!!
>
>Atari St's are great for the following functions.
>       > Door Wedges
>       > Sleeping Policemen
>       > Toilet Paper Holders
>       > A 512K Printer Buffer
>       > A Dust Absorber
>       > A Source Of Electronics for your HAIRDRYER ?
>       > A Sign Of Poverty
>       > A Tax Dodger
>
>p.s.
>Q > what is the differance between the ST and the SPECTRUM ?
>A > The midi ports !!!
>
>Should ST's be put in the newsgroup rec.humor instead because they are all
>jokes.

Mmmm, whats wrong with a good joke?  I love good jokes, they make you laugh
and feel good...thats why I use my ST!

So why don't you go out and get a Atari ST, looks like you NEED a good laugh
guy...!!!

--Greg

PS: (MUST be an IBM owner...MUST BE)

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 15:22:01 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu![e-mail] (David Butler)
Subject: Does the AdSpeed STe *REALLY* double the speed?
To: [e-mail]

>Hello,
>
>As I've said several times, I plan to upgrade to an STe with 4 Megs of
>RAM soon, and I would also like to have a 16 MHZ machine.  The question
>is, will the AdSpeed STe really double the speed of the machine or will
>it only double the speed of the processor?  Older accellerator boards for
>the ST claimed to give 16 MHZ performance, but only actually improved the
>speed by 25-30%.  What kind of performance can I expect from an AdSpeed
>STe?

I have AdSpeed in my Mega and I am extremely happy (many :*) ). In all tests I
have performed it has in fact exactly doubled the machines performance. I have
timed screen re-draws of Calamus with AdSpeed on and off (on extremely complex
pages, with more than 200 elements), and the speed was doubled. TouchUp loads
and saves .IMG files at twice the speed with AdSpeed as well. According to
"Speedometer", a MAC benchmark program running on my GCR, my Mega with AdSpeed
checks out at about 5% faster than a 16mhz Mac Portable (original, not the new
Powerbooks). Apparently the main diference between AdSpeed and the older boards
is that AdSpeed has a 16K read/write cache which functions to double the speed
of any function which will fit into that amount of RAM (which is apparently
nearly all of them). Any code which cannot load into this cache will only speed
up by about 25%? The older accelerator boards only had read caches, if they had
any at all (some didn't). Oh, I just got a fractal generator and it is going at
double speed as well! I'm generating 720*720 pixel fractals at 168 itterations
in 16 colors (I have ISAAC) in less than 2 hours... With AdSpeed turned off I
eventually just reset the computer, it was just taking TOO long. Beautiful
fractal images too!

By the way, you really should read my cool .sig file ;-)

- David Butler -      [e-mail]

                     -crawl to you
                      crawl to me
                      writhing in extasy
                      into the rhythm
                      into the sea
                      reptile man-            - Willie Phoenix -

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 14:31:00 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!edcastle!hwcs![e-mail] (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Flavours of ST
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Chuck Grimsby) writes:
>Nice list, 'cept that the original ST's had TV Modulators in them.  They went
>out with the ST-F's, which were the next version after the original ST came
>out.

We have a circa 1985 520 ST here with no internal disk drive and no modulator
either. The function keys are a slightly darker grey than the case too.
I did the piggyback upgrade to 1Mb to this machine a few years back and later
put TOS 1.4 in it too. I guess I'm kind of fond of the little guy.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
!                                                                            !
! Neil Forsyth                      JANET:  [e-mail]                 !
! Dept. of Computer Science         ARPA:   [e-mail]                 !
! Heriot-Watt University            UUCP:   ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil          !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK           "That was never 5 minutes!"              !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1991 08:15 +0200
From: DRAGAN PROTIC <[e-mail]>
Subject: GFA Basic
To: [e-mail]

>> How does GFA v3.5 compare to v2.5? <<

        It's like comparing Degas to MegaPaint Pro... ;)))

>> Can I compile my source code? <<

        Yes. 100% compatibility when transfering 2.0 --> 3.5

>> Will v2.5 code load into v3.5 and work without much (if any) modification?

        It won't load. You'll have to save it as .LST (ASCII) first, then
"merge" it into GFA 3.5, and save it as .GFA. But all older sources will work
and compile under 3.5 when transfered (BAS--> LST--> GFA) to 3.5 format.

__________________________________________________________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off  \ \
the shore of Orion. I watched C-beams... glitter in the dark, near the   \ \
Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears... in \ \
rain. Time to die.  ________________________________________________      / /
 - "Blade Runner"  | C|C | [e-mail]  Ph:011/457-116 |    / /
___________________|--+--| Dalibor Lanik, using friend's account... |___/_/
                   | C|C | Sredacka:9, Belgrade 11000, Yugoslavia   |
                    \___/ \________________________________________/

------------------------------

Date: 1 Dec 91 01:46:27 GMT
From: news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!tdkt![e-mail] (Chuck Grimsby)
Subject: GFA Basic
To: [e-mail]

In a message of <Nov 30 06:26>, Kenneth L Love (1:282/31) writes:
 >From: [e-mail] (Kenneth L Love)
 >Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st


 >Does anybody have any comments on the latest version of GFA BASIC
 >(v. 3.5?)?  I have v2.5 and its manual doesn't give any kind of tutorial
 >or decent examples of using it.

There is a _great_ book on 'how to use' GFA Basic that was put out for the 2.x
version called "The GFA Basic Book".  Michtron put it out when they were the
North American marketers for GFA products.  It comes with a disk as well, so
you won't have to spend a lot of time typing in programs/routines.  It _might_
be still available from MichTron.  There is also lots of documented code
examples 'floating' around BBS-dom and on the 'big' on-line services (GEnie,
CompuServe, etc.) as well.

As for Version 3.5....  Well, it's _definitaly_ worth the upgrade price.  I'd
do it again if I had to.

 >How does GFA v3.5 compare to v2.5?  Is the manual improved?  Can I
 >compile my source code?  Will v2.5 code load into v3.5 and work without much
 >(if any) modification?

The GFA 3.x manual not comes in a three ring binder, complete with index.  The
binder is a little on the small side if you want to nit-pick, but it fits.

You can compile either 2.x or 3.x code into a standalone program.  The only
hitch here is that the complier is a seperate program.  GFA has given the go
ahead to distribute 2.x versions of the *Interpreter* on BBSs and User Group
disks, however the manual and compliers cannot be!

You can load and run 2.x GFA Basic code into version 3.5 _provided_ you save
the 2.x code as a .LST file and select 'merge' in the 3.5 interpreter.  The 3.5

Interpreter won't load GFA Basic .GFA or .BAS code, only .LST.

As I've been writing this I've been looking for the price list GFA sent me when

I upgraded.  Phew! I finally found it!  The upgrase from 2.x to 3.5 is $99.95.
The list I have doesn't list a price for the complier alone, only as 3.5
Interpreter and Complier together at $149.95.
The list also has a Software Development book and disk at $39.95.  This _might_

be the book I talked about above.  I seem to recall it was at about the same
price.  There's also a 'Advanced Programming in GFA Basic' for the same price.

GFA Software Technologies, Inc. can be contacted directly at:
27 Congress St.
Salem MA 01970
Tel: [phone]
FAX: [phone]

 >Too many questions,

No such thing.  I just hope I've given you the answers you needed.


 * Origin: FlightLine PointNet  (1:282/47.1)

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 13:25:00 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!harrier.ukc.ac.uk!eagle.ukc.ac.uk![e-mail] (R.L.Wall)
Subject: Good raytracer needed
To: [e-mail]

I have already the GFA Raytrace program, but this is no longer adequate for
my needs, I was wondering if anyone knows of a raytracer (preferably not
too expensive) that meets the following requirements.

-Must work in 1 Mb
-Must have a *good* world editor (the GFA one is very limited)
-512 colour support (a la GFA) is a definite bonus
-Must handle refraction
-Must be able to handle prisms etc (not just spheres like pearl)
-Machine code routines (or heavily optimised C) so that execution is as fast
 as possible

Please let me know if there is such a program available for the ST.

Thanks in advance

Dick

PS - If there is any german PD available, I do have a friend that can translate
the docs
--
Crack, junkies, guns, sluts and cocaine; Men killing men, feeling no pain;
We've all gone insane; The world is a gutter! - Donnie Vie (Enuff Znuff)

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 08:39:36 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!alchemy!ruunfs!ruunfs![e-mail] (Peter Mutsaers)
Subject: Mint versus Minix
To: [e-mail]

I'll buy some more memory for my ST and give it a new live that way.
Now I am in doubt if I should go into Mint or into Minix.

Tos compatability is not an issue for me, but UNIX compatability at
the library level is, as well as speed, efficiency and memory usage.

Who can recommend one of the two, based on benchmarks etc.?

Thanks in advance,

--
_________________________________________________________________________
Peter Mutsaers.    RUU physics dept. Heidelberglaan 5, Utrecht, Nederland
[e-mail]   |================================================
tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 |              Memento Mori

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 09:24:01 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!alchemy!accucx![e-mail] (Jeroen Scheerder)
Subject: Rufus 1.06
To: [e-mail]

Hi y'all!

After finding Rufus 1.04 on some German ftp site and uploading it to
atari.archive I found Rufus 1.06 on a Dutch bulletin board.

It was supplied in German. I translated the binary and the resource
and I'm now working on the documentation.

Soon Rufus 1.06 will appear on The Archive (behold!) with both the
german and the english version of the binary, and german, dutch and
english resource files.

Expect it by the end of the first December week :-)

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 15:44:00 GMT
From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!frmop11!dearn!dmswwu1c![e-mail]
Subject: Rufus 1.06
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jeroen Scheerder) says:
>
>Hi y'all!
>
>After finding Rufus 1.04 on some German ftp site and uploading it to
>atari.archive I found Rufus 1.06 on a Dutch bulletin board.
>
>It was supplied in German. I translated the binary and the resource
>and I'm now working on the documentation.
>
>Soon Rufus 1.06 will appear on The Archive (behold!) with both the
>german and the english version of the binary, and german, dutch and
>english resource files.
>
>Expect it by the end of the first December week :-)

A VERY bad idea. First of all, DON'T create new distributions without
contacting the author first.

Second, Rufus 1.10 will be shipped in a few weeks and an english version
will exist right from the start.

___________________________ cut here _____________________________________
Julian F. Reschke, Hensenstr. 142, D-4400 Muenster, Phone: ++49 251 861241
fast eMail: [e-mail],    slow: [e-mail] (++49 251 77216)
____________________ correct me if I'm wrong _____________________________

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 16:57:58 GMT
From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu![e-mail] (Sharon L Skwara)
Subject: Supercharger?
To: [e-mail]

  Just wondering if anyone has a Supercharger (XT emulator) for sale?  If so,
let me know...

                                        [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 15:43:55 GMT
From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!frmop11!dearn!dmswwu1c![e-mail]
Subject: TT prices
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Covert) says:
>&suff deleteda
>AND get an 80386 co-processor board!! And get access to more UNIX SW
>as well as (yeechh) MSDOS stuff.
>
>So, the TT/ASV package is a no go for me.
>
>--
>Richard E. Covert                 [e-mail]
>CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert

According to Atari Germany, a fully equipped TT (16 M Fast RAM, 340 MB
Harddisk, 19" monochrome monitor) will be available for less than 10000 DM
(translate : $5000).

___________________________ cut here _____________________________________
Julian F. Reschke, Hensenstr. 142, D-4400 Muenster, Phone: ++49 251 861241
fast eMail: [e-mail],    slow: [e-mail] (++49 251 77216)
____________________ correct me if I'm wrong _____________________________

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 00:49:06 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wsu-cs!vela!sycom![e-mail] (Ronald Kushner)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
>
>I contend that Atari's ASV (Atari Sys V UNIX) is a product
>with no future.

[points deleted]

>so, if you care to argue the viability of the Atari ASV package
>please respond to my six points above. But remember the market place
>is the final judge and if ASV doesn't sell it won't last!! No one
>is going to buy ASV just to play games (and we all know that the
>TT030 is just a fancy games machine !!).

Anyone who thinks Atari can pull off Unix should read the negative crap in
the Amiga newsgroups about Commodore's SVR4 port... If I remember right,
some reviews state "poor performance at a high price"...  Atari and their
game image definatly won't have an warmer welcome from the Unix rags than
PET Commodore...

-- C-UseNet V0.52
 Ronald Kushner                         | Reality is the illusion produced
 P.O. Box 353                           | by an alcohol deficiency.
 Sterling Heights, MI  48311-0353       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 UUCP: uunet!mailrus!sharkey!sycom!rkushner  Internet:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 10:26:21 GMT
From: timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com![e-mail] (Marc Bouron)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
>
>    ... A monochrome only X windows
>    workstation is not a viable commerical product.

I think you should try telling Sun Microsystems that!  I am sitting at a Sparc
Station SLC with a monochrome monitor -- one of a very large number in our
organisation and elsewhere.  I put it to you that a good proportion (50/50?) of
Sun's workstations are monochrome.  (Speculation, I admit... but *do* ask Sun!)

>
> sincerely yours for the flaming
>
> --
> Richard E. Covert                 [e-mail]
> CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert

Cheers,

[M][a][r][c]


################################################################################
#                           #  [e-mail]             #    .   .    #
#  Marc CR Bouron           #  [e-mail]       (ARPA)  #   _|\ /|_   #
#  Cray Research (UK) Ltd.  #  [e-mail]    (DOMAIN)  #  (_|_V_|_)  #
#  [phone] x2208     #  [e-mail]      (JANET)  #    |   |    #
#                           #  ...!uknet!crayuk!M.Bouron (UUCP)  #             #
################################################################################

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 11:48:13 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!bcc.ac.uk![e-mail] (Mr Stephen R Usher)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
>
>I contend that Atari's ASV (Atari Sys V UNIX) is a product
>with no future.
>
>1) The Tt030's native (Atari original equipment) color resolution
>   is too coarse to support X Windows. Proof of this fact is that
>   Atari requires the user of their monochrome monitor, and does
>   not support ASV under color. A monochrome only X windows
>   workstation is not a viable commerical product.

This does not PROVE that the TT's colour resolutions are too coarse, it just
proves that Atari doesn't want to support them.

>
>2) The TT030 is underpowered, but overpriced. The Tt030 may  run a
>   a CPU rate of 33MHz but it memory access is restricted to a slow
>   16MHz. And UNIX is VERY VERY memory intensive. Hence, the TT030
>   should be better classed as a 16MHz 68030 machine. Which is too
>   slow for X Windows, esecpically w/o a video graphics accelerator
>   card to offload the video from the 68030 CPU.

The "underpowered" 386 machines seem to be doing OK running Unix. Byte for
instruction byte, 386's are far less efficient and the AT bus is a massive
bottleneck.

>
>3) The TT030 is overpriced. A Base TT0304/40 is about 2 grand. Add
>   1 grand for the monochrome monitor, another grand for more memory (
>   can't even use cheap memory 'cause you gotta buy an expensive memory
>   board from Atari to add more memory), and another 2 grand for the
>   ASV and you are up to 6 grand. And that is for an Atari computer
>   whose resale value is pratically NIL. Ever try to sell a used
>   Mega ST recently? A glut of those babies on the market now.

By grand I assume you mean a thousand US dollars. This is probably true for
the US, but you look at the worstation prices in the rest of the world, and
then look at the TT prices in the rest of the world...

>
>4) No Big Name Vendors will support the TT/ASV. Proof of this is the
>   fact that Atari can't provide a commerically supported C/C++
>   compiler for the ASV. Instead Atari is merely packaging the public
>   domain FSF GNU compilers. While these are fine tools, they should
>   be classed as "experimental" and aren't commerically supported.
>   Do you really think that you can call someone at Atari to get help
>   when you find a project killing bug in the GNU compilers? I think not.
>   Also, since Atari Corp has never shown any inclination to market
>   the ST/TT here in the USA, the ST/TT market is practically dead
>   here. Thus, current vendors are dropping the ST/TT from their
>   lines. This means that you will not see new commerically supported
>   products for the TT/ASV either.

This is not a problem ASV is AT&T Unix SYSVr4/68K and as such is binary
compatible with all other SYSVr4 implementations.

>
>5) No third party support for peripherals. In this day and age of
>   650 meabyte magneto-optical read/write disk drives, and 1.3
>   gigabyte Digital Audio Tape drives, where are these for the
>   TT/ASV? They don't exist for the ASV and given Atari's proven
>   track history of non-support here in the USA, you won't see them
>   sold here either. Maybe in Germany but not in the USA.

See my last point... all the extra you need is a converter cable to connect
between the TT (with a D shell socket) and the peripheral, which will
probably have either a MAC type SCSI connector or an AMP micro-D-shell type.

>
>6) ASV won't support TT programs. It is a known fact that the ASV
>   package can't run TOS/GEM programs. So, that means exiting UNIX,
>   which is no simply task in of iis self, and rebooting into TOS.
>   All other systems (SCO UNIX and MAC A/UX) allow their native OS
>   programs to run from within their UNIX. But once again Atari
>   Corp is too little and too late.

I'm sure some bright spark will get one working.. after all the 68030 has
got a pmmu and the TT still has it's TOS/GEM ROMs.

>
>
>so, if you care to argue the viability of the Atari ASV package
>please respond to my six points above. But remember the market place
>is the final judge and if ASV doesn't sell it won't last!! No one
>is going to buy ASV just to play games (and we all know that the
>TT030 is just a fancy games machine !!).

This is very true, may a superior technology has been overrun by lesser
technologies.

Thank God it didn't happen to transport, else you would be buying cars which
were "horse compatible" :-)

>
>sincerely yours for the flaming
>
>--
>Richard E. Covert                 [e-mail]
>CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert

I hope I've been contructive in my rantings (and that my spelling hasn't
been too bad).

I am not flaming you, Richard, just suggesting that you may have a slightly
distorted vision of the facts.

Anyway... whatever happens, it won't be changed by any Usenet news article.

Steve

--
Addresses:-
JANET:-         [e-mail] or    [e-mail]
Internet:-      [e-mail] or    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 16:00:23 GMT
From: mcsun!corton!laas![e-mail] (Ralph P. Sobek)
Subject: Writing a CPX
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gregory Carter) writes:
| I don't take your proposal seriously.  Nobody else outside the Atari
| world would either, especially NEW Atari customers who are looking at
| standardized platforms more and more like the MAC, PC, system 7.0, Windows,
| X - Windows, and above all, UNIX.

With respect to Unix(tm) I agree.  X-Windows resembles a typical MIT
product: way too many options, sure to confuse the user.  As for Macs
and PC's they run about as sure as my Atari!  No diff!

So please don't flame; since I took this thread out of the tech group.

--
Ralph P. Sobek                    Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
[e-mail]                              Addresses are ordered by importance.
[e-mail], or ...!uunet!laas!ralph
If all else fails, try:                               [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]  FAX-1: ([phone]  FAX-2: ([phone]
===============================================================================
Got a Mega 4 ST. Wish it was a Mega STe? :-|  Do I *really* want a TT/Next? ;~#

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 91 12:34:14 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix![e-mail] (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: ZAL
To: [e-mail]

Does any one know what ZAL does that was posted to Binaries,
the Docs are all in German, it seems to be a TSR but that as
far as I can find out about it, plus the words arc.zoo and lzh
in the Docs..Thanks..



--
***  Roger W. Sheppard      *      [e-mail]  ***
***  85 Donovan Rd        *    *   GEnie.  R.SHEPPARD5               ***
***  Kapiti                        At least I don't Flicker,         ***
***  New Zealand..          *      not like a dying light globe      ***

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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